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NellieBelle
11214 Posts
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 Posted - Mar 03 2016 : 04:25:43 AM
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| Beautiful. |
To laugh is human but to moo is bovine. Author Unknown |
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maryjane
7072 Posts
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Posted - Mar 03 2016 : 08:39:26 AM
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| Cindy, your latest Sally update has put a smile on my face a dozen times whenever I picture Sally turning her butt to you. That is soooo Sally. And the stand-off thing is soooo Cindy. Your updates are always smile time for me. Thanks Cindy:) |
MaryJane Butters, author of Milk Cow Kitchen ~ striving for the stoicism of a cow standing in the rain ~ |
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txbikergirl
3197 Posts
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Posted - Mar 03 2016 : 10:33:26 AM
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thanks ladies. mary jane i added that last butt photo specifically because she loves to do that ;> its just amazing to see the wheels of her mind work, to test to see if she can dominate me or not. just seeing that it only happens two days a week now instead of six is such great progress. and letting her turn around to face me and then me meeting her half way, it lets her know if she does her part i'll do mine. such a partnership.
of course today the halter went perfect, but then after milking she decided she didn't want to go to pasture and stopped about ten times on the way there just looking at me ;>
i am going to try to get the halter routine on video some time.. the one time i tried she wouldn't perform for patrick and was irritated by his presence ;> its like our morning bonding is for us and he was intruding. the duchess needs her alone time with me you know. |
_(199x300)_(66x100).jpg?v 93697001) Firefly Hollow Farm , our little farmstead. Farmgirl living in the green piney woods of East Texas on 23 acres with a few jerseys, too many chickens, a pair of pugs and my Texan hubby (aka "lover boy") |
Edited by - txbikergirl on Mar 03 2016 10:34:22 AM |
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maryjane
7072 Posts
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Posted - Mar 03 2016 : 10:40:25 AM
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Sally requires alone time ... and pears that aren't half eaten. Remember, when she gave birth to Sir Tony, she wanted to be alone with just him? https://heritagejersey.org/chatroom/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=181
I would think she was trying this morning to tell you you'd forgotten something, like half the milk in her udder. |
MaryJane Butters, author of Milk Cow Kitchen ~ striving for the stoicism of a cow standing in the rain ~ |
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txbikergirl
3197 Posts
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Posted - Mar 03 2016 : 4:59:21 PM
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actually i have been thinking about the pregnant momma alone time lately... keep telling myself it is too early. today i really did think that perhaps she was telling me now was the time. hummmm.
and guess what, i bit into an apple today and then gave her the other half. she took it into her mouth , spit it out, sniffed it, and... walked away ! HA! so i haven't risen any higher in her opinions that you mary jane. |
Firefly Hollow Farm , our little farmstead. Farmgirl living in the green piney woods of East Texas on 23 acres with a few jerseys, too many chickens, a pair of pugs and my Texan hubby (aka "lover boy") |
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txbikergirl
3197 Posts
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Posted - Mar 03 2016 : 5:03:04 PM
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goodness gracious mary jane, here i have been recalling that post and telling myself at some point she would want alone time... but i kept telling myself it would be a week or two before calving. HAH! your post says straight out it was two months prior. and here we are two months prior. and this is the second time she hasn't wanted to go to the pasture this week.
ok, i'll get this figured out. i really want her to have a larger area to enjoy than just the barn corrals but i can get this done this weekend. thanks for making me reread the link, it all makes sense now.
geez, its always the dense human isn't it.... geez. |
Firefly Hollow Farm , our little farmstead. Farmgirl living in the green piney woods of East Texas on 23 acres with a few jerseys, too many chickens, a pair of pugs and my Texan hubby (aka "lover boy") |
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Sydney2015
1156 Posts
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Posted - Mar 04 2016 : 06:34:20 AM
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| Sally is so beautiful! I love the pictures! |
A good laugh overcomes more difficulties and dissipates more dark clouds than any other one thing - Laura Ingalls Wilder
I live on a small farm of seventy acres called Green Forest Farm, with 10 horses, a donkey, 5 beef cows, 2 beef heifers, 3 Hereford heifers, around 60 chickens, 8 dogs, my amazing cow, AppleButter, and her little Jersey calf HoneyButter! |
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CloversMum
3486 Posts
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Posted - Mar 04 2016 : 10:48:11 AM
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But, we humans, keep trying .. that's the good part! It's just good to go back and remember previous birthing experiences. I find with my goats that they are very similar year to year, a few variations, but when I read the birthing records I'm amazed at the predictability of each goat ... even down to time of day to birth. I now have a birth record book just for my goats and I think we'll make one for the cows. I'll see this year if Clover is similar to what she did last year. The important thing is to remember to write it down.
And, next time ... just let Sally have the whole apple. :-) She's pregnant and eating for two! Maybe cut it in half? She's a lady who knows what she wants and it is only the best for her. |
Loving life and family on our Idaho farm, Meadowlark Heritage Farm; A few Jersey cows; a few alpacas; a few more goats, and even more ducks and chickens |
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maryjane
7072 Posts
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Posted - Mar 16 2016 : 06:10:07 AM
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Recently, I came across a photo of Sally that had been posted on our Coeur d'Alene store's Facebook page. A few days later Carol and I sleuthed around in our archives and found the high-res version of it so I could send it to you, Cindy.
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Sally O'Mally was born 4/7/2011 and was delivered here 8/15/2011. She hadn't been handled much, if at all. I put up a quick fence surrounding my back door (I hadn't moved into our facility yet) so I could try to bond with her. I was milking Maizy (I think) at the time so I thought I might try feeding Sally some milk in order to get her to come to me. It worked. I fed her a warm bottle of milk 2x/day. Slowly she let me start to touch her sides and eventually I was able to brush her. That was our routine for about three weeks. Granted, she was a big girl to be getting a bottle (although I kept Ester Lily on a bottle until she was that age), but I successfully used it to soften and somewhat negate her hardscrabble upbringing to date. In true Sally fashion, she decided (not me) one day that she was done with the bottle. Just like that. She shook her head "no" and stood at a distance when I sat on the stoop as usual to feed her. But by then we'd managed to bond. Early on I learned that Sally has a mind of her own and makes her own decisions. That never changed in the 4 years I had her. |
MaryJane Butters, author of Milk Cow Kitchen ~ striving for the stoicism of a cow standing in the rain ~ |
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txbikergirl
3197 Posts
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Posted - Mar 16 2016 : 12:31:38 PM
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thanks for putting the photo here maryjane with the story, just lovely. i have her birthday marked on my calendar since we came to an agreement last year ;>
what you said above doesn't surprise me. when i was really working with her after she had been with our family for two months, that is when i felt that she must have had a time when she wasn't comfortable with humans and /or didn't get much affection. she wanted affection, just didn't know how to ask or give it to ME - just a lot of head shaking and telling me no. apparently we both had to learn what worked. you had figured her out, and i had to learn a lot to get her to trust me. i do think she liked me then, but that it did break her heart a little to leave you - and she had t o spend time with me first to see if she would let herself bond. my plan is that sally will NEVER go to another home, she will be here the rest of her life.
she's such a good girl, you really made her into a wonderful cow - you brought out the greatness inside. she's happily munching on the fresh pasture this week, a whole new 5 acres to herself on a lush lightly rolling hillside. and she hides behind the large brush pile when she doesn't want to leave the pasture, so that we can't find her .. but that gorgeous swishing tail gives her away every time ;> |
Firefly Hollow Farm , our little farmstead. Farmgirl living in the green piney woods of East Texas on 23 acres with a few jerseys, too many chickens, a pair of pugs and my Texan hubby (aka "lover boy") |
Edited by - txbikergirl on Mar 16 2016 4:30:38 PM |
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txbikergirl
3197 Posts
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Posted - Mar 20 2016 : 7:14:28 PM
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so sally has really been putting me in my place lately. you know that amazing halter training i have been doing, that 5 out of 7 days she just comes right up to me in the designated corner and lets me do it?? .... well, when the human changes the routine up and feeds the cow in the barn then there really isn't any incentive for the cow to go to the human for harness installation? because perhaps the cow will be happy to stay in the barn all day and not go to pasture?
so i have been working on this all week, trying to get her back to the corner for her harness even though she ate already. i finally got her to at least come to the separation of her inside/outside area, and then i would meet her there.
so yesterday morning i didn't feed her first, and without skipping a beat when i step into the corner for her harness she just walks right over and waits for me to put it on. then we leave the corral and she knows to turn right to the parlor, because she didn't get her full breakfast yet... she knows. KNOWS. and we haven't been to the parlor in a week. but she knows.
so today we aren't back in the parlor and she gets full breakfast in the barn. and as usual i come back about 40 minutes later to take her to the pasture. and when i go into the corner to grab the harness, she comes right over and is all sweetie pie and i install the harness. and when we leave the barn corral she knows we are going to pasture and just turns left and is fine. so she knew she wasn't going to the milking parlor, and was GREAT about the harness anyway. so i was all overjoyed and thought, this is an AMAZING breakthrough we are having... HA! and now i just realize this girl is so much smarter than me and is just picking and choosing what she wants to do when. i am whipped. in love with her and whipped.
here she is in the pasture this morning, being all shy and hiding her udder so i can't get a good photo. it is pushed forward in the photo and looks larger than it is. but even tonight she is still small and swishy, no milk issues.
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Firefly Hollow Farm , our little farmstead. Farmgirl living in the green piney woods of East Texas on 23 acres with a few jerseys, too many chickens, a pair of pugs and my Texan hubby (aka "lover boy") |
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NellieBelle
11214 Posts
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Posted - Mar 20 2016 : 7:43:44 PM
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| That is something Cindy. Yap, cows are smart. Miss Sally looks so nice with the green grass background. |
To laugh is human but to moo is bovine. Author Unknown |
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maryjane
7072 Posts
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Posted - Mar 24 2016 : 07:54:42 AM
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| For me, Sally wasn't just smart, she was also complicated ... in a good way--a woman of intrigue. I'm constantly amazed at how different the personalities of my cows are. It keeps me on my toes emotionally plus the weaving of them all together is like a daily jigsaw puzzle. I quite love it. |
MaryJane Butters, author of Milk Cow Kitchen ~ striving for the stoicism of a cow standing in the rain ~ |
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CloversMum
3486 Posts
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Posted - Mar 26 2016 : 9:15:56 PM
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| What a beautiful picture of Sally and all the green around her. I'm learning always so much from your insights, Cindy. Animals are most definitely complex creatures, and even more so when they begin to trust you and you begin to understand their personalities. |
Loving life and family on our Idaho farm, Meadowlark Heritage Farm; A few Jersey cows; a few alpacas; a few more goats, and even more ducks and chickens |
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txbikergirl
3197 Posts
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Posted - Apr 09 2016 : 8:21:23 PM
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so the newbie is still learning.
this is sally earlier today, all sweetness and love:
and here is what sally was like tonight:
she had her head down, and she was pawing with one foot and then the other. she repeated it over and over, was pacing like a bull, and it was downright scary.
this has only happened once before. two nights ago, when i went down to get her at night she did it once, and i just told her NO and stepped to the side and reached out and petted her neck and she was calm. then it was just more alarming in that i recognized the behaviour as that of a bull, but she didn't really have a scary approach with it - does that make sense? it was almost like that time she was just trying to throw her weight around and it didn't work with me so she gave up.
tonight was different. she was in her pasture and i came down at the regular time to get her, and she wanted to nibble a bit more so i just left her alone and talked to her and the dogs while walking the pasture fences to check them. i then made my way back to the gate as it got darker, and she started running one way and then another, and then came straight to the gate and proceed to act like she ws going to ram first one dog and then the other. then she stopped and did that head down and paw scratching at me and then went for one of the pugs full blown to get it - and he got out of the way. i just calmly told her no, but i did open the gate and get on the outside. i wasn't freaking out, but did NOT feel safe. then she kept doing the head down and pawing the ground repeatedly, and she was pacing and i truly thought she was going to ram the corral panels to get at me. several times it seemed like she was going to do that. she stopped for a bit and let me pet her neck and seemed to relax, and then just started up again. i finally just turned around and left her in the pasture as i wasn't going to go in t here.
in searching the internet i didn't find a lot tonight, but i did find that it was (obviously) "aggression" and could be worse with hormones. there was also another post i found of someone saying their sweet jersey cow had done this to t hem, and they were shocked - and that she was due to calve in one month. well, we are due exactly one month from today.
i think it is just hormones. and she could be frustrated that elsa wasn't in the adjacent pasture all day today. but honestly, sally didn't moo or stand around for elsa today at all. i checked on her and she was happy grazing all day and didn't even look twice at the other pasture or barn.
have y'all had this experience? any thoughts or suggestions?
in the end i let her cool off and then lover boy and i went down together, it was pitch black but i let him go into t he corral and put her harness on while she came up to me through the gate and i stroked her neck and face and loved on her. it was uneventful and "normal". walked her back to the barn and she was happy to eat dinner. |
Firefly Hollow Farm , our little farmstead. Farmgirl living in the green piney woods of East Texas on 23 acres with a few jerseys, too many chickens, a pair of pugs and my Texan hubby (aka "lover boy") |
Edited by - txbikergirl on Apr 09 2016 8:22:26 PM |
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txbikergirl
3197 Posts
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Posted - Apr 09 2016 : 8:33:18 PM
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| thursday this week was sally's birthday and i was so swamped i didn't post here. perhaps sally is merely showing me the ladies way to revenge a birthday not properly celebrated or gifted... April 7th. |
Firefly Hollow Farm , our little farmstead. Farmgirl living in the green piney woods of East Texas on 23 acres with a few jerseys, too many chickens, a pair of pugs and my Texan hubby (aka "lover boy") |
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NellieBelle
11214 Posts
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Posted - Apr 10 2016 : 04:46:09 AM
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| Good morning Cindy. Reading your post just puts me in mind of a protective mother. And dogs can bring the worst out in a cow. And if you have two down there and she is keeping and eye on them, more as predators. You are probably right in saying hormones, and this close to having a little calf I would make certain the dogs were kept away from her as it's obviously not boding well. Don't want the little dogs to get hurt or you. I never let down my guard. No matter how sweet the gals our. Things can change in a moment, no matter how good you think you know them or time you've spent. And mommas are something you don't want to upset when it comes to protecting their own. I would just be cautious as not to do anything different or that she finds as potential harm. Keep calm, keep routine and await the beautiful arrival of your new baby calf. MaryJane will know more of Sally's personality at "close to calving time", so she will have good suggestions I'm sure. |
To laugh is human but to moo is bovine. Author Unknown |
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maryjane
7072 Posts
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Posted - Apr 10 2016 : 06:13:30 AM
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| Cindy, I think dogs and pregnant cows aren't always a good mix. Be back later! |
MaryJane Butters, author of Milk Cow Kitchen ~ striving for the stoicism of a cow standing in the rain ~ |
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txbikergirl
3197 Posts
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Posted - Apr 10 2016 : 06:40:09 AM
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i honestly hadn't even thought of that ladies, and i think you are right! both times she started at the dogs first, and then i thought it was aimed at me afterwards - but i had moved the dogs from the corral to behind me... so perhaps it was still at the dogs. this actually makes sense.
when sally came to us she hated dogs. hated. she never hurt them, but would go right up to them and swing her head w/in inches telling them to move. but i have been bringing them around her since arriving, and since stopping milking they actually come down to the barn each morning and walk to the pasture with her. and i thought she had accepted them as she no longer responds to them at all... but hormones make all the difference in the world.
guess what, she was all sweetness this morning. loving on me and everything. and i had left the dogs up at the house with lover boy ;>
i am going to stop bringing the dogs to the pasture and back. have to admit this is a hard one as dogs need walking, and running to/from pastures is the highlight of their day - but i'll just have to start making more daily walks so i take them out without the cows. perhaps this is god telling me i need more exercise. |
Firefly Hollow Farm , our little farmstead. Farmgirl living in the green piney woods of East Texas on 23 acres with a few jerseys, too many chickens, a pair of pugs and my Texan hubby (aka "lover boy") |
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txbikergirl
3197 Posts
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Posted - Apr 10 2016 : 7:13:44 PM
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sally is in fact back to her loving self. last night i had felt i had taken two steps back with her, but just leaving the dogs at the house brought back her loving calm self both this morning and tonight. it was just so lovely. she was licking me all over and back to her sweet sassy self. really warmed my soul, i was a little heartbroken last night at the thought i didn't know how to get through to her. turns out human was just a little slow in the taking.
thanks ladies, appreciate the assistance. thats what is so wonderful here at hjo, have an issue and post and everyone shares. i appreciate it greatly.
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Firefly Hollow Farm , our little farmstead. Farmgirl living in the green piney woods of East Texas on 23 acres with a few jerseys, too many chickens, a pair of pugs and my Texan hubby (aka "lover boy") |
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maryjane
7072 Posts
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Posted - Apr 11 2016 : 06:27:46 AM
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Cindy, since Sally never did that here, pregnant or otherwise, I'm going to say it's the threat of dogs to her baby that caused her episode. Plus she's had a stranger handling her recently (your vet visit) and I know Sally isn't always hip to strangers. Once when I invited strangers to watch me milk her so they could learn how, she wouldn't come into the milking parlor so I had to go out and get a halter on her to bring her in. And the whole time I was milking, she was watching them out of the corner of her eye. I actually had to have them distance themselves before she'd come back out.
And the issue with watching for a just-delivered cow to expel her placenta so she doesn't eat it (Fanci ate hers and was sick for a couple of days) stems from the fact that they needed to hide as much smell as possible from feral dogs who wanted to eat their new calf.
If you'd asked me to watch a movie like Sophie's Choice when I was 8 months pregnant or read a treatise on the Salem witch hunts when women were snatched merely because they attended a birth and applied some Arnica salve, I might paw the dirt also. In the later stages of my pregnancies, I tried to stay away from anything that would make my pulse quicken. Dogs and cows have a history, plus Sally may have very well been herded by a herd dog when she was young. They move them around my nipping on their heels. I had an employee bring her trained herd dog out once when I needed to run all my cows into a trim table. It worked but I think a couple of my girls wanted to die of a heart attack. I never wanted to do that again any more that I'd want to use a shock prod.
And then there's this, something Caren brought to my attention recently, and I think is showing up in the U.S.
https://munchies.vice.com/en/articles/a-dog-disease-is-causing-abortion-storms-in-the-uks-cattle
https://anewnatureblog.wordpress.com/2014/05/16/dog-wars-iii-parasites-from-dog-poo-make-dairy-cows-abort/
http://www.capcvet.org/capc-recommendations/canine-neosporosis/
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MaryJane Butters, author of Milk Cow Kitchen ~ striving for the stoicism of a cow standing in the rain ~ |
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CloversMum
3486 Posts
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Posted - Apr 11 2016 : 10:48:40 AM
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This makes me wonder about livestock guardian dogs. Are cows bothered by them as well? They wouldn't be herding the cows and nipping their heels so perhaps they would be less of a threat?
But then those links you posted above, MaryJane, suggests that any farm dog could be harmful to cows. |
Loving life and family on our Idaho farm, Meadowlark Heritage Farm; A few Jersey cows; a few alpacas; a few more goats, and even more ducks and chickens |
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maryjane
7072 Posts
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Posted - Apr 11 2016 : 11:18:28 AM
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Seems like we need to ask a vet if a common parasite protocol/program for dogs eliminates the threat altogether, neosporosis parasite-free dogs, neosporosis parasite-free cows.
I haven't had cows/dogs together because I don't have dogs (although I did have two Great Pyrenees but they weren't cow dogs--they were in with my horses), but wouldn't raising the cows from a young age with dogs make them compatible? I would think so. Cindy, get your new calf used to your dogs from day one. Birth attendants? Little white face masks? Sanitized paws? |
MaryJane Butters, author of Milk Cow Kitchen ~ striving for the stoicism of a cow standing in the rain ~ |
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txbikergirl
3197 Posts
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Posted - Apr 11 2016 : 3:55:01 PM
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interesting topic ladies. i have been socializing elsa to the pugs since day one, and she has always been more accepting than sally. she'll go up to them, they actually run around the pasture together, and she/they don't flinch from one another. and the same will be done with the new calf, but of course with a bit of time delay as i'll only do it when sally is not with her ;>
i get the pugs parasite tested annually, but neosporosis is not something that would detect. BUT thankfully i am fastidious in that i pick up ALL dog poo. seriously. there is nothing i hate worse than walking through the grass/pasture/woods and stepping in a pile. cow piles you can see easily, dog piles not so easily ;> so i have these little dog poop bags that are literally put in my pocket each day, and we supervise their every poop every day. ok, its a little neurotic but i also have one pug that will eat dog poo so i gotta make sure that disgusting thing doesn't take place. and its just for farm cleanliness, i didn't even know i was doing it for my cows health! THANKS MARY JANE, so good to know. now i can tell farm sitters how important it is and why.
learn something new every day ladies!
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Firefly Hollow Farm , our little farmstead. Farmgirl living in the green piney woods of East Texas on 23 acres with a few jerseys, too many chickens, a pair of pugs and my Texan hubby (aka "lover boy") |
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NellieBelle
11214 Posts
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Posted - Apr 11 2016 : 5:28:38 PM
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| Great information. I have dogs but they are not allowed near my cows or cows near my dogs. And even if I did socialize them around my cows, I would still keep them away during close to birthing time. That momma protecting from predators is strong and not worth taking the chance. I don't feel they need the added stress. That's just me. |
To laugh is human but to moo is bovine. Author Unknown |
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![[flourish]](/images/flourish-txt_mobius.png)
Miss Sally O'Mally - in Texas!
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