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Ron
4666 Posts
Ronnie
Peever
SD
USA
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 Posted - Nov 22 2014 : 4:55:28 PM
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O. K. So what happens if you bred a Guernsey Cow to a Jersey Bull? Would you be defeating the purpose of keeping a good genetic bloodline? Would the result be to display the worst or the best? Could the animal even be registered? Could a small bull mount a larger cow? So many things to consider.
Thoughts anyone? |
With a moo moo here and a moo moo there, here a moo, there a moo, everywhere a moo moo. |
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maryjane
7074 Posts
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Posted - Nov 22 2014 : 5:17:21 PM
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I'm thinking that if you wanted to sell animals from such a union, you'd run into problems with marketing. And no, I don't think you could register the calves on any registries that I know of.
If you wanted the offspring for home use and to sell to friends of friends who are only interested in backyard milk production, no problem!
For live mount, you can't pair two together who are too much different in size because a smaller bull can get hurt that way. I've heard of broken hips and even a broken penis. Ouch, right?
Or if a bull is too large for a cow, she can have problems during delivery and even difficulty during mounting.
I think I have photos of my bull Samson (mid-size) and Etta Jane (mini) standing next to each other recently when he bred her for the second time, live mount. Her calf from that first union was smaller, almost in between the two of them, kinda perfect in my mind.
I actually think it could be an awesome union in many ways for a lot of different reasons. Guernseys seem plenty big and a smaller Jersey bull (mid-size) would size her down. If I weren't so involved in Jerseys, I wouldn't blink an eye to try such a union. |
MaryJane Butters, author of Milk Cow Kitchen ~ striving for the stoicism of a cow standing in the rain ~ |
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Ron
4666 Posts
Ronnie
Peever
SD
USA
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Posted - Nov 22 2014 : 5:56:43 PM
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See I don't so much mind trying it and actually think it could be pretty cool to do but again I think not just any bull would do or any cow if you know what I mean. I guess a good place to start would be to measure the cow and see how tall She is.
Brook wee wee? Uugghhh that would turn a good bull into burger and steak. |
With a moo moo here and a moo moo there, here a moo, there a moo, everywhere a moo moo. |
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farmlife
1413 Posts
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Posted - Nov 23 2014 : 1:31:51 PM
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| I can tell you that as a person seeking a backyard cow I would have been fine with a Jersey/Guernsey cross. It wouldn't have bothered me one bit. The two breeds seem to compliment each other. However, when I see something that says, "Milk cow for sale, cross of 6 different dairy breeds," it's a little hard to know what you are getting. |
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Ron
4666 Posts
Ronnie
Peever
SD
USA
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Posted - Nov 23 2014 : 2:06:09 PM
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| That was a concern as far as cross. I was always uncertain if it would not bring out bad traits. MJ seems to think it could be worth the try. Just thinking ahead to Betsy breeding unless some one comes along who can't live without Her. A scaled down Guernsey would be nice. Even though they are considered a mid sized breed they just give SO much milk. I think the average family would be good with 2 to 3 gallons a day. Right now I am nursing a 3 month old calf full time and still pulling three gallons a day and not milking Her dry. When She freshened it was just plain insane milk volume wise. |
With a moo moo here and a moo moo there, here a moo, there a moo, everywhere a moo moo. |
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maryjane
7074 Posts
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Posted - Nov 23 2014 : 2:32:20 PM
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| I've been dying to ask this, Ron. How long does it take of actual hand milking for you to take all of Harriet's milk? She must have pretty big orifices (milk canals) also. |
MaryJane Butters, author of Milk Cow Kitchen ~ striving for the stoicism of a cow standing in the rain ~ |
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CloversMum
3486 Posts
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Posted - Nov 23 2014 : 2:42:07 PM
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I would also be curious as to what the milk would be like. I love the jersey milk and wonder how much the Guernsey would influence the taste? Although having more cream due to the Guernsey traits might be desirable for some.
And, Yes, I am wondering also how long it takes you to milk, Ron? |
Loving life and family on our Idaho farm, Meadowlark Heritage Farm; A few Jersey cows; a few alpacas; a few more goats, and even more ducks and chickens |
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Ron
4666 Posts
Ronnie
Peever
SD
USA
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Posted - Nov 23 2014 : 4:45:05 PM
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The whole ritual is about an hour. I go to the cow area and greet the girls for a while. Go in and clean up the loafing areas and yard of brown gold. Dump and scrub out the 15 gallon water pan and fill with fresh clean ( rule of thumb, if I would not drink from it don't want animals too ) get the milking pails and materials by the milking area. Go get treat and hay. Wash udder and sanitize, put down hay and treat and start to milk. I don't tie her or restrain. This cow is not much trouble. Right now I usually only have to milk one maybe two quarters. Calf takes the rest. Maybe the milking part now takes half hour for 2 gallons or so. When she freshend took about an hour.
I must add that most of the time I have to stop to rest, my wrists get to hurting the teats are large and barley get one hand around them. |
With a moo moo here and a moo moo there, here a moo, there a moo, everywhere a moo moo. |
Edited by - Ron on Nov 23 2014 4:55:58 PM |
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farmlife
1413 Posts
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Posted - Nov 23 2014 : 6:12:27 PM
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| Okay, so glad I didn't get a Guernsey. I have small hands, so if you can barely get your hands around them I wouldn't have a chance! |
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Ron
4666 Posts
Ronnie
Peever
SD
USA
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Posted - Nov 23 2014 : 6:21:52 PM
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| Yep, they are big bagged. Although Mara one one my best friends is a hundred pound 18 year old woman and She gets down and milks that cow out in less than half the time it takes me. |
With a moo moo here and a moo moo there, here a moo, there a moo, everywhere a moo moo. |
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CloversMum
3486 Posts
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Posted - Nov 24 2014 : 08:03:19 AM
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| Ron, do you go through the same ritual twice a day? Or is some of your routine just once day? |
Loving life and family on our Idaho farm, Meadowlark Heritage Farm; A few Jersey cows; a few alpacas; a few more goats, and even more ducks and chickens |
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Ron
4666 Posts
Ronnie
Peever
SD
USA
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Posted - Nov 24 2014 : 09:48:31 AM
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Same ritual twice a day with the exception of the mineral only goes in the feed once a day. Keep in my mind though that once a day would be preferable on the milking but the cleanup still twice.
Also my time is increased because I can only milk one handed due to an old injury. Also being there sre no children, no job, and no where to go the time is no issue. Actually when I build my barn there is going to be a room for me where I can sit and just enjoy the barn! |
With a moo moo here and a moo moo there, here a moo, there a moo, everywhere a moo moo. |
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CloversMum
3486 Posts
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Posted - Nov 24 2014 : 12:52:57 PM
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| Room to sit & watch in a barn is a must! |
Loving life and family on our Idaho farm, Meadowlark Heritage Farm; A few Jersey cows; a few alpacas; a few more goats, and even more ducks and chickens |
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Ron
4666 Posts
Ronnie
Peever
SD
USA
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Posted - Nov 24 2014 : 1:21:09 PM
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| Feet up, wood stove going, coffee in hand. ( sheep nibbling close by. Lol ) |
With a moo moo here and a moo moo there, here a moo, there a moo, everywhere a moo moo. |
Edited by - Ron on Nov 24 2014 1:21:46 PM |
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CloversMum
3486 Posts
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Posted - Nov 24 2014 : 7:40:38 PM
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| With cream in the coffee, of course!! |
Loving life and family on our Idaho farm, Meadowlark Heritage Farm; A few Jersey cows; a few alpacas; a few more goats, and even more ducks and chickens |
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Ron
4666 Posts
Ronnie
Peever
SD
USA
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Posted - Nov 24 2014 : 9:25:16 PM
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| Without saying! :) |
With a moo moo here and a moo moo there, here a moo, there a moo, everywhere a moo moo. |
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CloversMum
3486 Posts
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Posted - Nov 25 2014 : 08:27:50 AM
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So...as Ron has been so kind as to put sheep into my head! I have been thinking here and wondering, how can a person adequately give care to a variety of species? I mean when I first started with goats, my head was spinning and just now five years later I can kind-of know what I'm doing or at least know when to cry out for help to my vet-sister. I can tell you how long a pregnancy is, when & how to trim hooves, vaccines/worming schedule, etc. Now, with Clover, my learning curve is fairly steep but I am noticing a few basics do cross over. Would it be the same for sheep? Or can a person spread themselves too thin and not give quality care to their farm animals. I really strive for the best care possible (ok a bit fanatical at times) but my stack of reading keeps getting taller and I just keep realizing how much I truly do not know and is it fair to my animals?
MaryJane has really concentrated on cows and look at what a great herd she has developed! I guess my basic question is: should a person become kind-of good at lots of animals or really good with just a specific breed? Thoughts or advice? |
Loving life and family on our Idaho farm, Meadowlark Heritage Farm; A few Jersey cows; a few alpacas; a few more goats, and even more ducks and chickens |
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CloversMum
3486 Posts
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Posted - Nov 25 2014 : 08:29:02 AM
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| Actually what I really need is a whole bunch more time to explore everything that I want!! But then I do have to stop and slow down to enjoy what I've been given and be ever so thankful. |
Loving life and family on our Idaho farm, Meadowlark Heritage Farm; A few Jersey cows; a few alpacas; a few more goats, and even more ducks and chickens |
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maryjane
7074 Posts
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Posted - Nov 25 2014 : 09:08:41 AM
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It's probably different for everyone but in looking back I realize that I was essentially experimenting in the beginning to find what animals fit me (and my family). Because how do you know that until you REALLY experience certain animals? I brought home horses, goats, raised pigs, adopted two adult Great Pyrenees, a border collie, raised every breed of chicken, rabbits, Dexter, Shorthorn, and Angus.
Once I started to expand my Jersey herd past just one cow, I knew beyond a doubt it was the perfect fit for me. My horses made me feel guilty because I didn't ride them enough (murderous hip displacement on long rides not to mention they served no purpose other than I liked them), the goats weren't adequately fenced in like yours are Charlene, so we had lots of craziness--clothes eaten off the line, dented trucks, fruit trees demolished, you know, all the usual goat antics. The Great Pyrenees barked (did their job) all night (not a fit for B&B guests--had to use bark collars on them--not so fun). Anyway, my Jerseys aren't verbal to speak of, and they FEED us big-time. They smell good. (I just never got use to the unique smell of pig manure.) I have only one breed of chicken I like, Buff Orpingtons, and now Jasper, the perfect cat. Oh, and I even had a sweet female canary for a few years that actually sang (females aren't supposed to sing). I've found my calling now, and it's Jerseys. That's it. Jerseys. Jasper. Buff Ors (and no roosters). And then because of my Jerseys I can put time into cheese, cheese, and more cheese (I want to start experimenting with more exotic cheeses soon). It's nice not to be "dating" different animals any more:) |
MaryJane Butters, author of Milk Cow Kitchen ~ striving for the stoicism of a cow standing in the rain ~ |
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Ron
4666 Posts
Ronnie
Peever
SD
USA
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Posted - Nov 25 2014 : 10:44:02 AM
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Lol..I love it . Not dating diffrent animals.mi would have agree with MJ. Too many can be overwhelming. I do like my Cows above all else. I would not mind a couple of sheep cruising around more on account than other than shearing twice a year I did not have to do much with them. They grazed and layer around.
I would probably say if you want wool, just maybe buy some to experiment with. |
With a moo moo here and a moo moo there, here a moo, there a moo, everywhere a moo moo. |
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farmlife
1413 Posts
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Posted - Nov 25 2014 : 4:25:25 PM
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I think it's just a case of knowing what you can take on, Charlene. At what point does it start to feel like too much work and not enough enjoyment? For me personally, goats and sheep aren't on the agenda. We are not fenced for them and it would not be fun logistically, although I do have that patch of thistle that needs consumed. 
Since I fell in love with the calves this spring, I decided to get a milk cow after copious amounts of research. Do I still have tons to learn? Yes! But now I'm at the point of learning by doing. I'm with MaryJane on the dating, though. Out of the 18 chickens we have several different varieties and we did it on purpose to find out what we like. I will never purposely have Speckled Sussex chickens again. I also learned I don't like New Hampshires either. Just a personal preference. Sometimes you don't know unless you do it, but I understand not wanting to do it at the expense of the animals or your own peace of mind. Maybe you can just buy some wool to find out if you like spinning and decide on sheep from there. |
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Ron
4666 Posts
Ronnie
Peever
SD
USA
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Posted - Nov 25 2014 : 6:05:57 PM
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| I hate the voice of common sense and reason. Lol..but sounds like pretty darn good advice for sure! ( how many sheep do I want again ) |
With a moo moo here and a moo moo there, here a moo, there a moo, everywhere a moo moo. |
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farmlife
1413 Posts
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Posted - Nov 25 2014 : 8:00:55 PM
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| You forgot about the goats, Ron! How many goats are you getting again? |
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Ron
4666 Posts
Ronnie
Peever
SD
USA
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Posted - Nov 25 2014 : 8:05:45 PM
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| Actually I have slated two goats for the place. Found this really cool dating site! It's called. WW.iwantmoreanimalsthanihavesensedotcom. |
With a moo moo here and a moo moo there, here a moo, there a moo, everywhere a moo moo. |
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NellieBelle
11217 Posts
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Posted - Nov 25 2014 : 8:39:28 PM
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| Funny Ron. I can't even imagine what it would be like without our animals. It just wouldn't be the same. We have are pets but not much more and they have been with us so long it would be so strange if they weren't here. They are part of our daily routine, part of our lives each and every day. Most of them grew up with Colton, and when you spend time with them everyday, their family, no doubt about it. Chickens and rabbits are about the only turn over here. I will admit the outdoor cats can be overwhelming at times, but even they come and go. Rest are family. Don't see any additions coming our way other than the usual calf deliveries. Other than that status quo. |
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farmlife
1413 Posts
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Posted - Nov 26 2014 : 04:53:17 AM
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| I like your dating site as well, Ron. I bet you will be able to find a good match there! Who needs sense? |
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Cross Breeding
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