| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| txbikergirl |
Posted - Jan 15 2016 : 5:28:15 PM
I wanted to start a new thread on the adventures of Miss Sally O'Mally and myself, so that i don't keep posting to the "for sale" thread and get the hopes up of cow momma wannabes that might believe she is up for sale ;>
if you want to follow the initial "for sale" posting by Mary Jane and the eventual sale to us in Texas, then start here https://heritagejersey.org/chatroom/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=752
if you want to read about two new cow owners trucking a cow from Idaho to Texas and the effort it involves then go search the daily posts for September 25 2015 - October 5 2015 and see all the fun and glory involved.
miss sally o'mally in texas enjoying the good life
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| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| maryjane |
Posted - Aug 29 2016 : 10:38:01 AM
We're on our own with casting but after I'd figured out exactly how I wanted to do it here (and where) and the tools I wanted to use, I had my vet (whose talent is trimming hooves--seriously she fusses and fusses until they're perfect) come out with her assistant to be here with us the first time. We paid close attention to everything she did, including how she tied the feet. You might want to consider a vet visit the first time. After she left, we were buoyantly confident. Also, my vet so loved my little electric grinder, she bought one for herself. No big, dangerous grinders here! Even a 4 inch one is difficult to manage with one hand. "See these hands? They're only good for lipstick and writing checks:)" |
| txbikergirl |
Posted - Aug 29 2016 : 06:29:57 AM
i'll go over that with lover boy, thanks for the tip. obviously don't want to bang their little heads around! and the terry eye mask for the cows will be mandatory ;>
i can't get more iodine on it as they wrap it up so tight with this serious tape that is almost like a cast. it will fall off on its own in the next week or so. they did giver her antibiotics on friday, and we have a follow up shot to give her tomorrow, so at least we know infection shouldn't be an issue.
its one of those worrying waiting games, where the cows are probably healthy and fine but us humans can worry the situation to death. |
| maryjane |
Posted - Aug 28 2016 : 10:05:33 AM
Just make sure you don't tie the head down low CLOSE to anything like WSU did in the pics in my book. Down low is essential but not close. Lacy Lou took two nasty head bumps while struggling to get up, so when we do it now we have a black mat on top of wood chips; we tie the animal down low on the squeeze chute that is sitting right there but the animal is 3 feet out from it. As we gently start to pull back on the casting rope someone up front coaxes the animal backward. You'd be surprised how quickly they want to fall. Make sure you tuck a towel in around the eyes beforehand. Because of the rumen thing, we get them up in between sides and let them stand for a while before we "encourage" them to fall on the other side second time around. You'll want to secure the foot you're working on and have someone hold that as well as the one below it, secured also with a rope. I can give more details if you need them.
Dang about the second ouchie. Seems like it should be okay. Any chance you can get more iodine on it? |
| txbikergirl |
Posted - Aug 28 2016 : 08:01:59 AM
great minds think alike maryjane, while sally was in the chute lover boy and i discussed casting and decided we were going to jump in with both feet. once it cools down a bit ;> we are going to try elsa first as she is smaller and generally just follows us around calmly and does whatever we want. of course she could become a wild banshee during this process ;> i had lover boy look at the previous photo spread you posted, as well as pulling out the MCK book. he's excited.
love the lemonade sign photo, cute chair. cute color.
when checking on sally last night i was more concerned about her rear left hoof instead of the front right hoof we took her in for. when done with the right side at the vets, they trimmed the other hooves as well to keep them all even - but they weren't over long at all so it was a quick trim up. well when they were doing the rear left was when sally decided to be melodramatic and drop and they nipped her hoof (they put a bandage and iodine on it). and so now she doesn't want to put any weight on that hoof - but is walking fine on her front right. i am hoping that it is similar to a human with a stubbed big toe, the pain is out of perspective to the actual boo boo. but she is limping much worse than before. so i am watching closely.
she had no issue with jumping up right away when i came into the barn this morning, and she moved around to get her fresh hay and grain - so she is moving, just not happy about putting weight on the back left. |
| maryjane |
Posted - Aug 28 2016 : 07:05:59 AM
Cindy, given Sally laid down like she did, I think she'd do VERY well with casting in order to work on her feet. In about a month, once Lacy Lou has mended, she very much needs a trim. I will try to shoot a video so you can see how much better they like it than my new-fangled upright trim chute or squeeze chute. I posted photos a while back of Miss Daisy's casting trim. In my mind and for my situation, I do believe I solved my hoof trim conundrum (that I've struggled with for years).
I looked at your photos of the big event on my iPhone while sitting in a comfy Adirondack chair in Meggie's front yard under the shade of a huge walnut tree, squirrel above me loudly eating walnuts. Anyway, lots of their neighbors and friends were milling around all chatty, so I decided to check my emails. I got to laughing so hard, I had to wipe away tears. One of the moms said, "Are you facebooking?" I'm not sure they fully understand my answer as I tried to explain my initial gasp and then my delight at your story. And Sally laid out like she was. And the pugs, geez, they just crack me up.
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| farmlife |
Posted - Aug 27 2016 : 09:44:48 AM
I really can't imagine. All of it would give me a little bit of a heart attack. Hats off to you and Patrick for your quick thinking and calm demeanor. |
| txbikergirl |
Posted - Aug 27 2016 : 07:24:25 AM
oh, and i have been wondering if the pics of sally laying down in the squeeze chute would make maryjane pass out ;> i truly think sally relaxed into it, it was the craziest thing and if i hadn't seen it myself i wouldn't have believed it. |
| txbikergirl |
Posted - Aug 27 2016 : 07:23:22 AM
that is good to know janet, thanks for sharing. i attend to my girls daily and really think i am watching things well, but when something like this happens you wonder what you missed.
a few good things came of this. first, getting the second round of hoof trimming training was really beneficial and lover boy is over and beyond confident about doing it ourselves. i tend to think we can do anything ourselves, so lover boy tempers me at times (appropriately so). when it comes to something like this and he thinks we can, and should, do it then it really sets us up for success.
second, it was good for us to work with the younger vet and sally. the younger vet is very schooled in large animal care, and he was born on a farm so has tons of practical experience, but its the older vet that owns the practice that i just adore and he has always handled our cows. but having this younger one work on sally and take the time with us gave me confidence in his abilities. he's been a little pushy about things with the dogs that i don't agree with, and that had made me second guess his large animal skills - but he really proved himself yesterday and i appreciate that we have two solid doctor options for our farm. and the willingness for them to make farm visits is just so wonderful in this day and age, as long as they have two vets around they truly make every effort to come to the farm.
this may seem a silly thing for some, but i also appreciated how he wouldn't use anything on sally until he went and doubled checked long-term dairy cattle use. he knows we don't sell milk, and sally is not lactating now, but he wasn't willing to rely on any prior experience and went and made sure that it didn't take an animal out of the dairy line-up for organic or raw milk if something had been used on them. i think many vets so used to commercial dairy or beef cows would just assume whatever they could use on their normal clientele would be fine - but he went to triple check. he had wanted to give sally something for inflammation and pain, but the low level item he wanted to use wasn't approved for organic raw milk dairies so he didn't use it.
off to check on the girls and sally now. |
| NellieBelle |
Posted - Aug 27 2016 : 06:54:30 AM
Interesting afternoon for you Cindy. I'm not sure the wet weather caused anything Cindy. We've had it really wet for the last 2-3 years, and Nellie and Sienna and the calves have been in swampy, wet, muddy yuck much of the time. I've been concerned about their hooves here, but so far, no ill effects. Could be that Miss Sally is just predisposed to hoof problems and will bear extra observation, or like the vet said coincidence. May never have another problem with hooves again. Just thankful it's over with and she is on the road to recovery. Pugs are adorable. |
| txbikergirl |
Posted - Aug 26 2016 : 5:52:05 PM
well, miss sally o'mally came home to the barn last night with a definite limp. it wasn't hurting her enough to limit her movement, she was still moving whenever/wherever she wanted - but it was definitely limiting her speed. she didn't want any weight at all on her front right hoof when moving. but we weren't sure it was her hoof or her knee, as when we felt around and tried to check things out she kept pulling back once we touched her knee.
our vet was off on vacation this week, as a result they didn't have enough vets on staff for a farm visit, so we loaded miss sally up in the trailer and took her into town. i have to tell you, my experience with sally is that when she gets ill and needs your help she totally complies. as you might be aware, she's a sassy gal and pretty much tells me what is (or is not) going to happen around the farmstead. but when she needs help instead of getting all bossy and difficult, she just follows along. i truly think with the bond we have created she trusts me and knows i am trying to help. she just lets us do what we need to do.
if you have a great memory, you'll remember that 3 months and 3 weeks ago she had a problem with a rear hoof, it had a minor little split and a notch out. she didn't have a horrible limp then, we just worried that with an impending calving we didn't want any potential hoof or lameness issues.
one thing i was so grateful for, not being even 4 months later they told us her hooves were not too long, they were fine, and this was just a freak incident that happens from time to time.
what they found is when they pressed on the bottom of the outside of the hoof she pulled back immediately, but not on the inside of the same hoof. there was a split/crack on the outside of that hoof, and apparently it got infected and she had an abscess. they trimmed the hoof down on that side to eliminate the crack completely so it couldn't keep splitting, then they dug down in the sore area and it drained out a bit of icky. and bled. and bled. and bled. then they treated with iodine, and wrapped.
the interesting thing with this split/crack is that it started so low on the wide of the hoof, like where it meets the dirt. before it was on top, and noticeable and so we caught it super early. this time, if the cow had stepped in minor manure or dirt or mud there is just no way it could be seen. so another reason to take non-lactating cows into the milking parlor at least once per week for a pedicure. i had been brushing, grooming and fly spraying down at the barn as they girls just mill around and we all hang out and it is enjoyable - but i don't have concrete to wash them down on at the barn, nor do i have the stellar facilities.
this is sally at the beginning. at this point she is wondering why it is that she is trusting me.
this is chubby sally. i am sorry to say that they didn't have to squeeze her so much in the squeeze shoot - mother nature took care of that.
and here is the hoof trim in process.
and all wrapped up
then she turned into the drama queen. decided she would just do the front kneel pose.
the funny thing was, when she went down like this the vet loosened the head lock so she could breathe and get up at her leisure. and she just stayed there, relaxed and looking at me like "this is better". it was almost comical after getting over the shock. she truly started to relax into it.
and yes, she did this on both sides. i honestly think she enjoyed it better than the headlock squeeze. when she did it the second time they just trimmed up both hooves on that side lickety split to get it over for her.
lover boy was my rock.
and the pugs were our support group.
they ended up slightly trimming the other three hooves just to keep them even, but trimming those three was faster than the work on the first problem hoof. sally was glad to get home and walked with me from the trailer through the gates back to the barn. elsa is in heat and was mooing and making a total scene about it all, bea was just dancing around and glad to have the duchess home.
sally was limping much more when we got her home, but they dug out that area so it is to be expected. what i do find interesting is that when she stands still she puts equal weight on that foot - trying to feel around and check all of them out she is fine. its only the actual step that is where she moved weight off it as fast as possible.
so, second hoof issue in four months. i talked to the vet about any mineral or vitamin deficiencies and if they could cause it, he said no. i asked about any causes whatsoever, he said none. freak coincidence is what he attributes it to.
but i want to do some research. i am wondering if going from a more (relatively) dry climate to this super duper wet climate could assist with this - akin to us doing dishes without gloves, our nails would soften and be more likely to split.
we get 40" of rain per year, and we have had a TON this year. even though they are NOT in swampy areas, or in any standing water, it is wet and softer grounds - and could this cause any issues for a cow that was raised in a different environment?? just conjecture on my end.
the hoof split itself wasn't too deep that they thought it was unusual, just crummy.
she gets her annual vaccinations/tests soon and i am going to have them run a mineral panel on her and the other girls just to see if there is anything off there.
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| txbikergirl |
Posted - Jul 11 2016 : 6:06:27 PM
i find it endearing that not one of you said, "sally is obese!". are you being polite, or do you think she is ok? i can't help it, i think she is a happy tub of pasture love ;> i just can't believe she is anything but extremely overweight. |
| GingerBKelly |
Posted - Jul 11 2016 : 10:00:21 AM
WOW! Sally and Elsa look so perfect! Beautiful photos and discussion. Thanks! |
| maryjane |
Posted - Jul 07 2016 : 09:13:57 AM
Also, I've decided to put Miss Daisy in with Charlie or Samson next month and not attempt AI on her. (Charlie means the calf wouldn't have horns; with Samson there is a 75% chance the calf would have horns.) And if Ester Lily doesn't get pregnant the first time with AI using some of Margarethe's Dairyman's semen (same sire as Daisy's and Maggie's), I'll put her in with Finnegan. I do appreciate my bulls at times like this! Ester Lily is homozygous polled so no horns no matter who she's with. |
| maryjane |
Posted - Jul 07 2016 : 06:25:01 AM
I got a chance yesterday to ask at WSU about weight and AI. That was after Ester Lily was being examined and I was asked what I thought of her body score. I replied, I think it's good. The vet said, "It's perfect actually, just right for AI, not too thin, not too much extra."
I was told that when a cow has extra fat around her organs, it impacts how well the ovaries work, as well as the likelihood of implantation. I know AI is an iffy proposition as it is and sexed semen diminishes the chances even more. Extra weight on a cow decreases the likelihood of a "take" on top of all that.
Also, stress. During Miss Daisy's hoof trim on Tuesday, she got her foot up and over one of the horizontal cross bars (more tweaking apparently). By the time it was all said and done, she was a wreck, something I've been trying to avoid. We did manage to get her one problematic back foot trimmed that needs attention every couple of months in order to keep her leg straight. But she was trembling afterward and eventually slept most of the day. I was scheduled to bring her to WSU to start AI yesterday but they said it isn't wise to attempt AI so soon after a "stress episode." And it sounds like I need to wait to get a little bit to get more weight off her. During the winter, it didn't feel like I could give her enough food but I'm learning that with an older cow you really have to look at her every day and make adjustments to feed (especially when you have her on pasture). On large dairies, they often have a full-time nutritionist monitoring and adjusting feed constantly according to the season and availability of pasture. Anyway, Cindy, it does sound like we have a better chance of AI working when our cows aren't packing a few extra. It's the same with bulls. They get fat around their testicles and it impacts sperm production as well as their ability to be agile and mount a cow safely.
The challenge for me is feeding different amounts to different girls and guys (I have Samson in his own sparse pasture right now in order to get some weight off him.) And I'm going to cut Miss Daisy back even more. When I bring her in to milk this morning, she's going to get just her morning Chaffhaye (less than a gallon) and no grain during milking (even though I'd cut that down to only a couple of cups). Then, every other day she'll go on pasture at the usual 3 pm. On the days I don't let her on pasture, she'll get a small dinner of grass hay. I use a grain treat to get them off the pasture and I'm going to cut that back even more, as well as bring them off pasture earlier than 8 pm. Pasture is going to be a short "recess" for a while until I see her belly thinning out. Lacy Lou does portion control very well on her own and Ester Lily is fine. Hope all this helps you think the weight issue through. |
| txbikergirl |
Posted - Jul 05 2016 : 6:44:16 PM
so as we bare all here, i will now share a picture of miss sally o'mally from this weekend. in all her obese glory. it took me a bit to get a good photo that truly represented her form - doesn't reduce or add 50 pounds, just says it like it is.
if you ladies tell me she looks good, then i won't worry. but i am concerned this little tub of texas pasture love is going to make getting AI'd more difficult...
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| NellieBelle |
Posted - May 04 2016 : 7:03:28 PM
Miss Sally and Elsa are really looking nice Cindy. Beautiful photo of them in green pastures. |
| txbikergirl |
Posted - May 04 2016 : 05:41:26 AM
we can all only strive towards two pantlegs tucked in with spurs! can't wait to take this same photo this time next week with a third in the herd. |
| maryjane |
Posted - May 04 2016 : 05:30:06 AM
Seeing these photos of Sally and Elsa is such a great way to start the day. Pure pastoral. Perfect scene for #3--pants tucked in! |
| txbikergirl |
Posted - May 03 2016 : 7:23:00 PM
sally out in the pasture this afternoon, after returning from the vet visit. she's 6 days from her due date.
we finally have elsa and her in the same paddock. they are just so much in love and enjoying the time together. but it is so sweet, whenever lover boy or i go down to the pasture to check on them elsa comes immediately running over to either of us to get a rub down and hug or two. then off back to the pasture she goes.
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| CloversMum |
Posted - Apr 12 2016 : 08:41:47 AM
Great information for everyone ... thank you to all for sharing! I'm headed over to WSU vet tomorrow with a friend so I might get a chance to pick a vet's brain about farm dogs and cows and such. |
| txbikergirl |
Posted - Apr 11 2016 : 5:32:04 PM
yes janet i have learned something new here. imagine that! ;> |
| NellieBelle |
Posted - Apr 11 2016 : 5:28:38 PM
Great information. I have dogs but they are not allowed near my cows or cows near my dogs. And even if I did socialize them around my cows, I would still keep them away during close to birthing time. That momma protecting from predators is strong and not worth taking the chance. I don't feel they need the added stress. That's just me. |
| txbikergirl |
Posted - Apr 11 2016 : 3:55:01 PM
interesting topic ladies. i have been socializing elsa to the pugs since day one, and she has always been more accepting than sally. she'll go up to them, they actually run around the pasture together, and she/they don't flinch from one another. and the same will be done with the new calf, but of course with a bit of time delay as i'll only do it when sally is not with her ;>
i get the pugs parasite tested annually, but neosporosis is not something that would detect. BUT thankfully i am fastidious in that i pick up ALL dog poo. seriously. there is nothing i hate worse than walking through the grass/pasture/woods and stepping in a pile. cow piles you can see easily, dog piles not so easily ;> so i have these little dog poop bags that are literally put in my pocket each day, and we supervise their every poop every day. ok, its a little neurotic but i also have one pug that will eat dog poo so i gotta make sure that disgusting thing doesn't take place. and its just for farm cleanliness, i didn't even know i was doing it for my cows health! THANKS MARY JANE, so good to know. now i can tell farm sitters how important it is and why.
learn something new every day ladies!
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| maryjane |
Posted - Apr 11 2016 : 11:18:28 AM
Seems like we need to ask a vet if a common parasite protocol/program for dogs eliminates the threat altogether, neosporosis parasite-free dogs, neosporosis parasite-free cows.
I haven't had cows/dogs together because I don't have dogs (although I did have two Great Pyrenees but they weren't cow dogs--they were in with my horses), but wouldn't raising the cows from a young age with dogs make them compatible? I would think so. Cindy, get your new calf used to your dogs from day one. Birth attendants? Little white face masks? Sanitized paws? |
| CloversMum |
Posted - Apr 11 2016 : 10:48:40 AM
This makes me wonder about livestock guardian dogs. Are cows bothered by them as well? They wouldn't be herding the cows and nipping their heels so perhaps they would be less of a threat?
But then those links you posted above, MaryJane, suggests that any farm dog could be harmful to cows. |
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