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Keep him a bull?

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T O P I C R E V I E W
happyfarmwife	Posted - Aug 09 2015 : 12:08:20 PM We have an older registered Jersey cow that has been difficult to breed and we finally gave up and put her with an Angus bull for one last try. She blessed us with a beautiful Angus/Jersey bull calf a couple days ago. Sad thing is that due to poor management in her past, she has no working udder left so this is her last calf. We were hoping for a heifer but she has replaced herself in our herd so we are thankful for a live calf and surviving cow. Question now is should we castrate this fine little guy or leave him a bull for possible use as a dual purpose sire? He's polled, red with black dorsal, black hooves and black face. Excellent dairy pelvis wedge and his dam was a phenomenal milker in her prime so the genetics are there to be a tremendous bull for farmstead use. Please weigh in and comment......as I really want input from the group! Thanks, Jen in miserable steamy Oklahoma
25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)
GingerBKelly	Posted - Aug 31 2015 : 08:18:50 AM Another happy story.
happyfarmwife	Posted - Aug 27 2015 : 2:13:04 PM WELL.....the decision has been made, the Angus/Jersey bull calf is now a steer. Although he was out of outstanding genetics, as he began to grow and develop, we noticed that his lower jaw extended beyond his upper jaw so that when his teeth came in, they did not meet the upper pad but extended beyond significantly. Since that is a fairly serious issue that can be passed on from bull to offspring, we chose to band the little guy and he's now a steer in the making. He never seemed to notice so I guess our timing was good as well. For those of you who know the kid's story about Ferdinand the Bull that was always looking at butterflies and flowers and not being a "real" bull........this is Ferdinand.....he is continually following the chickens around, chasing the ducks out of his pen, nosing the dogs and pestering the heifer calves...... So his name is Ferdinand and he lives up to his namesake. Destined for freezer at some point but now there's no chance of him passing on that jaw issue to any offspring... And he has no clue that he will be anything other than just another friendly face on the farm!
CloversMum	Posted - Aug 20 2015 : 10:59:48 AM Cupid certainly fits her name! I think I'd breed for that sweet heart on her side, too. Very cool what you are doing with the Dutch Belted Dairy cows. I'm happy to see more of an interest in heirloom/heritage breeds. Thanks for all of your information.
maryjane	Posted - Aug 20 2015 : 07:06:52 AM Very cool info about your efforts to participate in the genetic recovery for the dairy side of the Dutch Belted. Sounds like concerned folks got going on it just in the nick of time. It seems like there are recovery efforts with lots of heirloom farm animals these days. Member Mike is doing that with pigs. Important work to say the least. Cupid is adorable and her name fits her perfectly. Is part of the recovery of the Dutch Belted Dairy to try for a complete belt? I'd prefer a cow with a heart on her side if it were me. Can you breed for that:)?
NellieBelle	Posted - Aug 20 2015 : 07:01:59 AM Nothing cuter than a calf. Thanks for sharing the photo.
happyfarmwife	Posted - Aug 20 2015 : 06:57:59 AM They are very distinctive looking cattle. The belted breeds include the beef side of the genetics which is what most people are familiar with....look like old style Angus with a belt....Oreo cattle! The Dutch Belted, also called Lakenvelder which roughly translated means "sheeted" cow because they look like they are wearing a white sheet over their middles is the dairy side of the belted cow breeds....NOTE: I have quite a collection of Foxfire books and have found a number of Dutch Belted dairy cows(and bulls) featured there. The Dutch Belted were very popular into the middle of the last century but when people quit keeping a dairy cow for family milk, the dairy lines were almost completely lost. When the breed gets down to less than 400 in the world, that's almost gone! The American registry opened up the herd books for "genetic recovery" using the "Breeding up" option. So any dairy breed cow can be used when bred to a Dutch Belted bull from the herd book. The female offspring are then "recorded"(registered) as 50% 75% etc. The male offspring cannot be recorded until they are offspring from the fifth generation(0.9375% pure).
farmlife	Posted - Aug 20 2015 : 06:38:06 AM Some people down the road from us have a Dutch Belted cow. When we drive by my kids always say, "There's Oreo cow." Cupid is absolutely adorable! She's earned her name.
happyfarmwife	Posted - Aug 20 2015 : 05:36:16 AM This photo was taken when Cupid was just under a month old. I'll take some fresh photos soon as she's nearing weaning time and she's changed a lot and is a lovely dairy heifer.
maryjane	Posted - Aug 19 2015 : 8:39:30 PM I'm dying to see pics of Cupid. Isn't cow adoration the best thing since bread and butter? When I tucked both Elsa and Ester in for the night a few minutes ago, they gave me lots of good night kisses.
happyfarmwife	Posted - Aug 19 2015 : 7:53:05 PM One more fun note..........the current heifer calf of the Dutch Belted cow that has chosen me........ADORES ME! She will nuzzle my arm, hand or elbow requesting attention......so she has chosen me as did her mom.....she will chew on my shirt tail.......nuzzle and pick at me until I pet her......Her name is Cupid.....she has an incomplete belt that looks like a heart on one side.....and Cupid love me like her momma does! I think that's wonderful and humbling to have a large animal LIKE me!
happyfarmwife	Posted - Aug 19 2015 : 7:49:33 PM I'm working on our farm website so it's not current on the cow projects..... However here's great general information on the Dutch Belted dairy cattle: http://dutchbelted.com/ And the Viking Red, also called Danish Red cattle are incredible dairy animals! The AVERAGE number of lactations for a TYPICAL American Holstein dairy cow is 2......TWO LACTATIONS and they are culled, thrown away, turned into hamburger for some reason..... With the Viking Red dairy cattle, some of the very first Viking Red cows born in America are still in production at the age of 15! That is in a commercial dairy setting, not a pet, not a special project cow......those cows are on the line producing still, having a calf every year and doing well! One thing that impressed me is the intelligence and survivability factor of the Viking Red(Danish Red) dairy cattle. Nearly EVERY dairy that has used Viking Red semen has had so many lovely heifers survive and THRIVE that they have had to open a second dairy to use the great cows they are producing! With the traditional American Holstein, the calves are hard to keep alive and often succumb to an infection before their first birthday.........or require such aggressive intensive care to keep them alive that it's a losing proposition to raise replacement heifers. The Viking Red calves have VIGOR.....and intelligence.......they learn quickly and WANT TO STAY ALIVE! Something which is missing from the American Holstein breed! So we are super excited to have two of the first Viking Red heifers born in Oklahoma! And they are wonderful...... This is the company we purchased semen from. They are wonderful devoted fans of the breed and we are excited to see where the breed develops in our world! http://www.creativegeneticsofca.com/swedish.htm
maryjane	Posted - Aug 19 2015 : 6:40:41 PM How sweet is that?! I know that my cows have distinct personalities and like and dislikes. That's part of the fun, and intrigue I suppose. Can you give us a link to your website for your Dutch Belted and Viking Red?
happyfarmwife	Posted - Aug 19 2015 : 4:57:24 PM I have a lovely little milk cow who tested A1/A1. She has a wonderful udder, perfect temperament and attitude for a family milk cow and she's NO LESS VALUABLE to me than before I knew her Beta-Casein status! She has stolen my heart....she's very quiet and reserved so when she chooses her person, YOU ARE SPECIAL in her world.......and I take that very seriously! She likes me and I'm not the "cow person" in the family.......now I like cows a lot and am gentle and kind with them and respect them highly.....My husband is the COW PERSON.....and this little girl has chosen me to be her friend......She backs away from my husband and although she knows her job and where she fits in the partnership, and comes in for milking for him just fine, she has chosen me.......she's MY GIRL!....GIGGLE!!!!!
maryjane	Posted - Aug 19 2015 : 3:25:03 PM The A2A2 thing makes me feel, well, bullied if you will. I can imagine how my cattle feel about it.
happyfarmwife	Posted - Aug 19 2015 : 3:19:09 PM Since Beta-Casein testing is so new and the company who created the test has done a lot of promotion and hype, we really don't know for sure that the true difference between A1/A1.....A1/A2.....A2/A2 So when you have an incredible cow or bull I can't find it in my heart to cull simply on that new "fad"......As fads tend to change things may show up that brings new light on the Beta-Casein factor...Maybe instead of being "bad" for human consumption, A1/A1 reduces bad cholesterol? THEN WHAT? All those lovely genetics wasted, thrown away, culled, made into hamburger....... Although I am interested in the new trends in livestock, I despise what it does to the gene pool when something gets insane like this trend/fad has done! That's my thoughts anyway!.....
NellieBelle	Posted - Aug 19 2015 : 12:37:10 PM Always good to hear fresh and new ideas, viewpoints and experiences. Welcome yours as well as everyone else's. That's how we learn and grow. Prevents mistakes and helps us become better caregivers to our animals. Are you milking cows or have a milk cow GingerBKelly?
GingerBKelly	Posted - Aug 19 2015 : 12:18:31 PM Thank you, NellieBelle for your warm welcome. I believe I will enjoy conversations regarding Cattle and especially the Heritage Jersey.
NellieBelle	Posted - Aug 18 2015 : 10:45:21 AM You have such good stock from which Sweet William came from, have and know his parents history etc. I could see where you would have a difficult time deciding. But you also have experience with bulls and know how they need to be socialized etc. so I could see where you would hesitate in making him a steer if he would make good breeding stock for yourself or others who are interested. It's a good problem to have.
maryjane	Posted - Aug 18 2015 : 10:07:18 AM I'm having a hard time with the same decision right now. My newest miniature bull, Sweet William, is perfect in every way except the A2A2 thing that people favor. Presently, I have two bulls but he's such a fine specimen of a bull. Everything you'd want in a small homestead bull. I'm going to delay the decision because I have the WSU facility where he can go for a later fix should I decide to do that. It's never an easy decision for me either and I keep thinking someone will want this awesome guy.
happyfarmwife	Posted - Aug 18 2015 : 09:54:27 AM For clarity, please take a look at what we do....We breed, raise and train farmstead dairy cows and when they are ready we offer them for sale. Our breed of choice at this point is Dutch Belted and Viking Red dairy cattle. We use Jersey cows because that is what is available in our area that gives the right size, production and good genetics to use in the "breeding-up" program to preserve the Dutch Belted dairy cattle breed. With the Dutch Belted dairy cattle, we are protecting and preserving a rare, highly endangered breed of dairy cattle that were down to fewer than 200 purebred animals in the USA and fewer than 400 TOTAL in the WORLD! By using high quality semen from superior bulls, we are doing our part to help preserve those great old genetics and to add to the knowledge base so that people will consider Dutch Belted dairy cattle for outstanding forage based dairying. We AI everything......when we produce an outstanding dairy genetics bull calf, they are generally sold before they are weaned for three to four times what they would bring as beef/steer/freezer bait and every single dairy bull calf has gone to a homestead breeder to improve genetics in their operation! I was curious if anyone would consider this bull calf as a potential bull. We don't need him here, we have a semen tank and at this point have 10 bulls represented there including some of the best dairy genetics in the world. I didn't need a lecture on why not to keep a calf a bull......I really like the Angus bull responsible for this little calf......The dam of this calf is some of the best production Jersey genetics available today. He's not junk, he's not an aggravation.......he is a really nice beef/dairy crossbred. He is the product of a last ditch attempt to keep his dam from going to slaughter.......since we had bred her 10 cycles AI without success. I'd certainly rather have a live calf than to cull the lovely old cow without giving her one more chance! SO everybody pull in your horns and quit pawing the ground......More than likely this guy will eventually go for beef......but for now he's a bouncing baby bull......
NellieBelle	Posted - Aug 18 2015 : 08:30:11 AM Hello GingerBKelly and welcome to the group! What I know about "bulls" you could put in a thimble and that's why I castrate my male calves when just a few weeks old. If I were a breeder or looking to start a dairy herd it may be different but for my small little operation I have going here, I will stick to AI and stay with the Jersey breed. The information here on the HJO site from MaryJane has been most informative and unless you know what you're doing and have the right set up, pens and education, then it just makes sense to go the way of the AI and the steer.
GingerBKelly	Posted - Aug 18 2015 : 06:49:29 AM Read the thread about "Mickey Moo" and you'll know exactly what I'm talking about, regarding whether or not to castrate your dear little Angus/Jersey bull calf. Here is the link: https://heritagejersey.org/chatroom/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=983
GingerBKelly	Posted - Aug 18 2015 : 06:35:04 AM I agree with Mary Jane, "People I know who mix breeds have a hard time selling them. If it were me I'd turn him into a steer and stick with Jersey milk cows." AI is cost effective, easy and available. Most people with lovely Jersey heifers and sound dairy stock have no use for a mutt bull for breeding purposes, sorry to say. Jersey/Angus cross steers are excellent for beef, if you don't wait too long to castrate him. There are at least 5 good reasons to castrate now, rather than wait till later. If you wait: 1. Vet costs will increase. 2. You risk the health of the steer. 3. The steer suffers more (more painful). 4. The beef will not be as tender. 5. (most important) Bulls are very dangerous. No matter how tame your bull is now, your cute little super-adorable hand-raised bull will become what nature intended, aggressive. It is in a bull's nature to be dominant, even over their handlers. At this point, fluffy or blackie (or whatever you named him) has the potential to kill you. Why risk it? Is it worth having a bull to risk serious bodily harm or even death, for you and your children? For this reason alone, a steer is the best way to go. Besides, steers are just way too sweet. They are adorable and easy to train. Some people train them to pull carts or farming implements. Steers are also great companions for people and other cows. They also help owners visually know when heifers are in standing heat (naturally), a very nice perk, indeed.
maryjane	Posted - Aug 10 2015 : 3:10:10 PM You're right, there's no hurry to decide. The longer you wait, the more muscle they put on. Thanks for letting us weigh in on what is clearly a tough decision for you. The concern and care you give his mother is rare and admirable. She's one lucky milk cow to have been adopted by you.
happyfarmwife	Posted - Aug 10 2015 : 06:03:48 AM The fact that in our part of the country there are a lot of homesteaders that are looking for dual purpose cattle and the downsizing factor, this Angus/Jersey guy may have value as a potential herdsire. We can always sell him across the scale at the livestock auction as a beef animal. If he shows promise as a sire we can sell him either way. Once he's a steer, there's no going back.