| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| CloversMum |
Posted - Feb 28 2016 : 5:39:32 PM
Last night I stayed up late watching Tulip, our Oberhasli doe who was overdue. She was having slight contractions but not a lot of discharge. I rested on the cot until those darn ducks just would not stop their late night chatter!
This morning I went down by 6 am to check on Tulip. More discharge but more angled from her pin bones and tail was higher. My good friend who loves goats even more than I headed over to see. At 8:30 am our BnB guest stopped by the barn to see if any babies were born yet. We told her that Tulip was indeed in labor and at that point, Tulip started pushing with hard contractions. Our guest wondered if it would be rude if she video-taped the birth! :) Within minutes the first doeling was born, proper presentation, no issues, sac was already broken. The guest was over the moon excited ... will be interested to see her review! (She's already made future reservations with us!) But she had to leave ...
The second kid was coming! This one was still in the sac which caused a huge bubble that was slowing the birth down. I made the decision to poke the sac and the amniotic fluid poured out and I could see the kid was presenting correctly again. I helped the feet to straighten and out SHE came! Two sweet doelings! My Tulip has always just had twins so I thought she was done, but bounced her and wasn't really sure what I was feeling. I turned to pick up some dirty towels when my friend yelled, "Charlene, there's another one coming!" Then, I quickly turned around and sure enough, we were having triplets! I've had an Oberhasli give birth to triplets twice before and not all the kids survived. I was expecting a dead kid, actually. Only one hoof was showing, sac had already broken. I reached in and only felt another elbow but no head. Yikes. This baby was breech. I decided that I needed to pull her out as quickly as was safely possible because if the umbilical cord had broken, this one was not going to be able to get oxygen. So with the next couple of contractions, I pulled the kid out backwards! My first breech delivery! This little one was breathing, too!!!!
I'm so excited! Tulip just gave me triplet DOELINGS!! In years previous, I was forced to sell Tulip's babies so this year I told my friend that if Tulip gave me twin girls, I wanted to keep them. Well, she gave me an extra one for good luck! I really am hoping to keep all three!
I'm exhausted but it has been a great day! At 1 pm we had 14 people over for dinner ... hubby is amazing and helped with it all. I've been feeding the triplets and little Adora their bottles throughout the day. Triplet doelings! How glorious! |
| 25 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| CloversMum |
Posted - Mar 10 2016 : 4:18:04 PM
A little blackboard sign would be a great reminder. Do you find the best price for these gloves on Amazon, MaryJane? |
| maryjane |
Posted - Mar 10 2016 : 05:22:27 AM
Good to know about the cervix. I thought it closed up fairly soon in order to keep out bacteria. Having done a bit of AI and knowing how complicated a cow's cervix is, I was trying to picture doing that to a cow.
I was just reminding Nick the other day to wear gloves. In order to make it easy for him, I purchased several more XL boxes of disposable gloves for placing around the farm so they're more handy. Glove up! I always say. I should make one of those cute little blackboard signs to that effect. Glove Up!!!! The life you save may be your own AND the life of your cow.
Here are the gloves I like. I also put them on for cheese making. I buy a size medium for me:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CF49TYC?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00 |
| CloversMum |
Posted - Mar 09 2016 : 5:48:46 PM
Andrea, were you able to log-on to the webinar? |
| CloversMum |
Posted - Mar 09 2016 : 5:24:55 PM
Just finished the webinar class on lambing and kidding and learned a few new things; although, most of it was review which is also a good thing.
MaryJane, I think you asked earlier about the length of time that the cervix stayed open after delivery? I asked the speaker, Dr. Jennifer Miller, that specific question. She said that it would could stay open in varying degrees up to a month after delivery! Of course, the opening significantly gets smaller and smaller as time goes on. But that explains why I can insert IV tubing when I am performing an uterine flush on my does that require a bit of extra help.
Another item that I learned was that that zoonotic diseases can be transmitted in the birthing fluids. I always gloved up when I needed to palpate but not as a normal procedure. Guess from now on, I will automatically glove up when I'm attending a birth! |
| CloversMum |
Posted - Mar 08 2016 : 1:44:27 PM
Tansy FINALLY delivered her afterbirth last night ... a full 48 hours past the birth of her twins. She is still on uterine flushes which is the bag of saline drip with Chlorohex added to it, Naxcel IM injections, and Banamine SubQ injections.
Andrea, I was still able to sign up for the small ruminant kidding and lambing webinar that is tomorrow evening! Thanks for sharing that link!
The flushing is done with IV tubing so incredibly small ... I've flushed out goats up to five days post delivery. Not sure exactly when the cervix closes up tight, but you can tell. It seems to vary with each animal and the type or severity of the delivery that they experienced.
Tansy is acting much more chipper today although she's still calling for her babies. I still think it is due to raging hormones since she just lost her afterbirth. She's giving good milk for her babies.
In about two weeks, we'll use the milk for human consumption after we get it tested. |
| maryjane |
Posted - Mar 08 2016 : 02:14:56 AM
Let's hope the care you're giving Tansy gets her back on her feet. Seems like with all the knowledge you're gaining, you should open up a birthing center. Any ideas how much longer her cervix will remain open/receptive to the flushing? |
| CloversMum |
Posted - Mar 07 2016 : 5:55:52 PM
Tansy has a retained placenta ... I'm posting more details about this because as goats are small ruminants, perhaps it can relate and help with cow deliveries as well.
According to the WSU vets and my sister, Tansy will continue to be on the antibiotic Naxcel and pain/fever reducer Banamine. Placentas are normally delivered a few hours after birth. If it is longer than 12 hours, then it is considered retained. Tansy has had a retained placenta for almost 72 hours. Never cut or pull on the placenta. The weight of it helps to naturally detach. And pulling on it can cause permanent damage or fresh bleeding in the uterus. I was advised to do an uterine flush every day to wash out any detached tissue. The flush is an IV bag filled with 0.9% sodium chloride with added chlarohex (sp) and I insert the IV line into Tansy's vulva into her cervix which is still slightly open at this point.
She's acting fine so far, although this morning she wasn't quite as chipper. I take her temperature a few times daily and she has not yet had a fever which is a very good sign. I will need to continue to be vigilant in my care for her and my observations.
Two possible reasons for her retained placenta are a poorly positioned kid which required human assistance inside the womb and manually trying to stretch her when I thought she was overdue (which she actually wasn't ... I had messed up her breeding dates). My sister thinks that I can still breed her next fall ... I really cannot afford to keep her without her milk production. But I am still thinking about it and will do more research on it. Another goat had a poorly positioned kid one year and has never had another one.
|
| Andrea0509 |
Posted - Mar 07 2016 : 08:44:51 AM
Charlene you have done such a wonderful job through the entire birthing process. It's been a great learning experience for myself in just reading through your posts :) And you're right, mannequins would be useful!
The birth management webinar is this week, March 9th. The online registration is closed but you can still call or email them to see if you can sign up. It's a free class. http://agrinews-pubs.com/Content/Auction-Calendar/Livestock/Article/Webinar-to-address-kidding-and-lambing-/15/7/14424
I also just registered for a seminar at Michigan State University this weekend on sheep & goats that I'm really looking forward to! Thankful to live nearby to a great university that offers classes like this. Very similar to your WSU with a veterinary college, agricultural programs and other resources through the Extension. |
| CloversMum |
Posted - Mar 06 2016 : 6:59:43 PM
MaryJane, the milk withdrawal time is 36 hours for Banamine ... I said the wrong time in an earlier post which I edited. |
| CloversMum |
Posted - Mar 06 2016 : 6:57:45 PM
Here are my goat kids that were born last night ... the little buckling loved to snuggle in my lap and then his sister joined him.
 |
| CloversMum |
Posted - Mar 06 2016 : 3:44:33 PM
Andrea, I'd like to hear more information regarding the small ruminant birthing webinar that you are participating in this next week.
As I think about last night, I was doing the correct thing ... just not enough, reaching far enough into Tansy's uterus, pushing the kids' feet backwards, etc. I really wish there were goat mannequins that we could practice on, cow mannequins too! With a calf or kid dummy that we would feel out the parts inside the fake uterus and practice delivering different positioned animals. Call me crazy! But I want to know the feel BEFORE the emergency strikes. How far can a person reach into the uterus without rupturing the uterine wall on a goat or cow? I can read and look at diagrams but it usually doesn't say the length or more specific details. I know each animal is unique; however, there must an average of everything.
Wishful thinking and I'll be talking all this through with my sister |
| maryjane |
Posted - Mar 06 2016 : 07:12:45 AM
Impressive indeed. The new additions to your goat family and the love and care given to them by their human family are wonderful. |
| txbikergirl |
Posted - Mar 06 2016 : 07:05:34 AM
charlene, i am continually impressed by your efforts. hugs to you and the family after the ordeal. and six doelings and a hardy little buck, just beautiful. |
| NellieBelle |
Posted - Mar 06 2016 : 06:54:37 AM
Sounds like you and the goats could use a rest Charlene. |
| CloversMum |
Posted - Mar 05 2016 : 11:07:55 PM
36 hours milk withdrawal for the Banamine. But we aren't using the milk yet for humans.
We had a rough day today. Tansy labored off and on for most of the afternoon. This evening my daughter sat down to feed Adora and saw two hooves peeking out of Tansy. I got a frantic call on my cell from the barn ... I can still run pretty fast! The first kid was wedged a bit. Tansy is small but the kid was positioned correctly. She needed help to deliver it though. I got both feet and made sure the head wasn't caught up on the top of the pelvic bone, pulling with every contraction and then resting when Tansy rested. Finally, the kid was born. Another doeling!!!!! Owen named her Jasmine. Then, I knew there was another one but Tansy's contractions slowed. Finally another hoof popped out but this time there were problems. No head and this was not a breech presentation. You can tell by the way the hooves present. I had to reach in, gloved and lubed, to feel things out. The head was turned back. My heart sank. The sac had already broken and I did not know if the umbilical cord was still intact or if the kid was without oxygen. I tried and tried to get that head turned. However, I was so concerned about how far I could reach in, was I going to rupture her uterus, was the baby dead or was I going to kill it??? Time to call in reinforcements. My sister (the vet) came ASAP and did the same thing I had been doing only she went further inside. We were praying out loud and comforting Tansy. My sister warned us that the kid might be dead. I sent Cecily over to check on the first kid born. My other daughter was caring for that kid. Owen had tears in his eyes and the rest of us were trying to keep it together. Finally,my friend felt movement and said the kid was alive. And, after several tense minutes the second kid was born! A buckling! We named him Tamarack. Boys get tree names.
Six doelings and one buckling ... No more kids until the 20th. This will give me time to get Marigold and Tansy back on their feet. Tansy needed some oxytocin to help stop the bleeding from the trauma to her uterus. She is also on antibiotics since we needed to enter her uterus, and more Banamine to help her with her discomfort. I'm still waiting for her afterbirth. And we put a coat on her as she was shivering a bit afterwards. So not all births are easy but I was prepared with our kidding box.
What a night! But seven babies all alive and mamas too. |
| txbikergirl |
Posted - Mar 05 2016 : 10:11:37 AM
charlene the photos just make me smile. and i am so impressed with your medical abilities. does adora get to play with the new goats at all? just wondering... |
| maryjane |
Posted - Mar 05 2016 : 10:00:31 AM
How adorable! Glad to hear that Marigold continues to improve. Do you by any chance know what the milk withdrawal period is for Banamine?
Also, Tansy is now due again, right:)? |
| CloversMum |
Posted - Mar 05 2016 : 08:35:38 AM
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| CloversMum |
Posted - Mar 04 2016 : 5:29:53 PM
Marigold had her first injections today of Banamine and Naxcel, along with her second uterine flush. She's certainly better than last night! But not back to normal ... but eating, good rumen sounds, normal temperature, less birth discharge, and drinking her water. Such a relief! She's my herd queen and it would hurt to lose her. Today I soaked a bucket full of beet pulp (probably GMO but needed to get calories into my doe) and she ate some of that as well. I can dilute her milk down with my other goats' milk and still use it for my goat kids which is nice as I try to use as little powder replacement as possible.
I'll need to give her daily shots for the next couple of days with uterine flushes for the next three to four days. The only issue is that she is occupying the only kidding stall we currently have set up! :) So Tansy will need to pick a birthing "corner" versus a complete stall in which to have her kids. I do separate the other goats from her but it isn't exactly the way I had set it up for ... adaptability and flexibility is the name of the game! The end result? Healthy mama goats and healthy kid goats. |
| CloversMum |
Posted - Mar 04 2016 : 11:13:50 AM
I'm running laps back and forth to the barn these days! But what an incredible blessing this barn has been! Cecily was able to be with us in the barn, even with a space heater! That was a very significant moment for her to watch her first birth ... she's always been so afraid of loud noises and if the goats made loud noises then she would collapse, fall down, and start crying. (Slightly hard to help her up when I'm all gloved up with gloves to my shoulders!) But I guess noisy roosters and ducks help to distract and Marigold wasn't even loud. We told Cecily that if Marigold was loud, she was just telling us how hard she was working. Cecily was so proud of herself and told everyone she saw that she had just watched her very first goat birth! :)
She might be able to watch Tansy's birth now ... |
| maryjane |
Posted - Mar 04 2016 : 11:05:53 AM
I've been wondering about Tansy. Thanks for the update. Fingers crossed all goes well. |
| CloversMum |
Posted - Mar 04 2016 : 11:01:11 AM
A webinar on birth management for small ruminants would be so much fun! When I was delivering Marigold's twin doelings, Cecily was so brave and wanted to watch her very first birth. My friend, Alida, who is my goat midwife partner during kidding season told me later that we should have recorded it as I was giving a running commentary as to what was happening, what I was doing, and why. I didn't even realize it, but I guess I wanted to explain to Cecily what was going on so she wouldn't be scared! :)
Well, Cindy, my goat kidding skills just took a nose-dive ... after Tansy spent the night at WSU, the next morning I pulled out my old calendar to relook at the breeding dates. Lo and behold, Tansy had shown signs of heat on 9/30 and 10/6 ... obviously not true heat both times and she probably was bred on 10/6 which would make her due date today! She most definitely was not five days overdue! I felt a bit silly letting the WSU vet know this ... she was thrilled for Tansy as that means Tansy is doing fine so far. I was less thrilled to have to confess my poor bookkeeping skills. :)
So, we brought Tansy home ... they could have kept her until she delivered but I didn't want to spend money on that (very reasonable overnight rates there) as I'd rather use that money towards delivery costs if she has problems. Yes, I'm frugal. And, I think Tansy seems more relaxed and happy in her own barn with her own herd. So, Alida and went back over there yesterday and transported Tansy back home. I'm impressed with the vets as they texted me this morning just to check in ... they want to know when Tansy delivers and want pictures of the kids!
Tansy had a rough delivery last year, but I'm hoping I can help her this year. We know there are twins which hopefully make an easier time. I feel confident that I can help position the babies, but Tansy is smaller and finer-boned so I'm hoping she physically has enough room. Having already kidded once before is also in Tansy's favor.
So kidding season continues! I actually hope we have at least one boy as I already know of a home for him. They want a pack goat. But the rest can be girls ... hope, hope, hope. :-) |
| Andrea0509 |
Posted - Mar 04 2016 : 08:50:24 AM
Really enjoying your posts on this! You're great at what you do :) More sweet doelings, how exciting! I've been reading through my "managing your ewe and her newborn lambs" book and signed up to take a webinar on birth management for small ruminants next week. Much to learn. Thanks for posting your adventures! |
| txbikergirl |
Posted - Mar 03 2016 : 5:18:32 PM
charlene, this is so wonderful. i'll really impressed with your goat birthing skills. congrats on all your doelings. |
| Sydney2015 |
Posted - Mar 03 2016 : 07:09:05 AM
Yay! My cousin had a goat named Pippa for a little while. That is a lot of baby girls to take care of, I hope Tansy does okay. I love the pictures! |
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